[identity profile] lady-ganesh.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] fandom_grammar
Woulda, coulda, shoulda: Why is "Should of" not correct?



Why is "Should of" not correct?

Because the word you're looking for is "have." It's a verb that's almost in the past tense, indicating something that didn't actually happen-- "I should have looked for the cat under the dresser," or "He should've at least asked me first."*

People run into trouble with 'should have' because almost no one uses the expression "should have." Native speakers of English are used to battering the language around, and we contract "should have" to "should've" as a matter of course. It's perfectly correct, and everyone does it.

The problem occurs when we move the phrase from our ears to our fingers, hearing "should've" and writing the near-homonym "should of." Some people even say something that sounds more like "should of" than "should've."

But the basic point stands: "should of" is incorrect, and it's such a common mistake that if you use it, you will probably come off as someone who doesn't do their homework, or at least doesn't do it well. Even if you're writing an uneducated character, you're probably better off using a different abbreviation to indicate the rough and tumble nature of their speech, which brings me to the humble "shoulda."

I Coulda Been A Contender!



The above video-- Marlon Brando, in a classic scene from the movie On the Waterfront-- is known as the "I coulda been a contender" speech. Here, Brando's language is rough and dialect-heavy. It's a great speech, and the accent makes it greater.

So this is the Great Exception to "It's Should Have or Should've, Dammit!" rule:

Dialect and Dialogue

If you've written anything in English, you should know that people don't talk the way they write. Holden Caulfield uses "shoulda," even though the book is a novel written by a very literate man, because the tight first-person perspective J.D. Salinger uses gives the book his 'voice.'

Spoken dialogue gives you even more freedom. The only time, in fact, you should ever use "should have" in dialect is when your character speaks very formally, uses English as his or her second language, or is a robot. (And not always then!)

So-- as with all good writing-- remember who's speaking and that formal English is very much not the same as spoken English, and respect and use both languages well.

...but please, don't use "Should of!"

* The Fan Grammarians, for all their talents, have not been able to find a definitive phrase to describe this tense. Anyone who does find a definitive answer will win a free drabble from me if they post it in comments.

18/12/07 02:22 (UTC)
ext_3440: (Default)
[identity profile] tejas.livejournal.com
Passive modal perfect, if I'm reading this properly. I don't recall ever studying modals at all.

http://www.englishpage.com/modals/modalforms.html

And thanks. "Should of" always annoys me to distraction.

18/12/07 02:52 (UTC)
[identity profile] whimsicalwhims.livejournal.com
Hmm... "Passive modal perfect" sounds off to me, as by its very nature, the perfect tense (have + -en) is passive. I would probably refer to it as a "past perfect modal." Here, past refers to the tense and perfect refers to the aspect.

On their own, modals are tenseless, and the perfect aspect has to be added in order to refer to the past.

::shrugs:: I'd dig out my class notes, but they all have been tossed together in a box, and I'm far too lazy.

18/12/07 02:59 (UTC)
ext_3440: (Default)
[identity profile] tejas.livejournal.com
If you do stumble on your class notes, I'd love to know for sure. I've just been digging around online looking for it.

Sheesh. I'm such a geek. :-)

18/12/07 03:22 (UTC)
[identity profile] whimsicalwhims.livejournal.com
Okay, I pulled them out, and apparently I am not as disorganized as I thought, because I found the day my grammar professor discussed modals. A quick caveat: While I took a class on grammar, it is not my area of expertise.

At the top of my page, I wrote the words "modal = tenseless." Further down the page, I circled "perfect aspect = prior to; gives the idea that it happened before now."

Unfortunately, I don't have an exact term to describe the example should have + -en. However, I believe that I have to amend my previous comment, and take out the "past." Calling it a Modal + Perfect Aspect would probably be okay.

(And if anyone out there has a MA or PhD in grammar, feel free to jump in here!)

18/12/07 03:26 (UTC)
[identity profile] whimsicalwhims.livejournal.com
Also, in an effort to truly be confusing, when discussing the perfect aspect, "have + -en", "-en" can refer to words that end in both -en and -ed. Exampes: They should have walked. They should have ridden.

18/12/07 12:56 (UTC)
[identity profile] callistosh65.livejournal.com
As a shorthand when teaching this to students learning English as a second language, this often gets referred to as "verb 3" in the classroom. The high school students I teach learn that some are regular - help-helped-helped - and some are irregular - break-broke-broken. Tenses like present perfect and past perfect take "verb 3" (have broken/had broken), and simple past tense takes "verb 2" (as in 'he broke the vase yesterday').

Of course, it doesn't help that even the grammar books can't decide on definitive terms for such things..*g*

18/12/07 13:15 (UTC)
[identity profile] callistosh65.livejournal.com
The Fan Grammarians, for all their talents, have not been able to find a definitive phrase to describe this tense.

should + perfect infinitive - to show that we expected smth to happen in the past, but we don't know if it happened or not. ex: Tom should have passed his exams.(We often use it to express negatives, to say that smth didn't happen)

(as a by the by, my students tend to learn it as 'should have + verb 3'- see above note.*g*, they say it makes more sense to them like that:))

So, where does this fit? When we teach it, we explain that it's "past", ( the present is should + infinitve ( without 'to') ex: Tom should pass his exams. Which is used to show that smth is probable now or in the future.

Okay, I'm wandering off to ponder some more before I muddy the waters completely...*g*




*dons mod hat*

18/12/07 13:42 (UTC)
[identity profile] melayneseahawk.livejournal.com
*poke* This was supposed to be posted to the [livejournal.com profile] fandom_grammar comm yesterday...

Re: *dons mod hat*

18/12/07 14:41 (UTC)
[identity profile] melayneseahawk.livejournal.com
Wow, I need more sleep. It was just the title that threw me off. *headdesk*

Re: *dons mod hat*

18/12/07 16:21 (UTC)
[identity profile] callistosh65.livejournal.com
Ok, quick question here for one of the mods, because I've just read the profile description a tad more carefully and now I'm not sure if commenting is available to everyone? Or just the Grammarians?(lovely word, btw:)) If 'watching' means just that, then I apologise for jumping in with both feet and will sit on my hands in future..*g*

Re: *dons mod hat*

18/12/07 16:22 (UTC)
[identity profile] melayneseahawk.livejournal.com
No, you are more than welcome to comment! Join the party!

18/12/07 14:39 (UTC)
theemdash: (M Grammar)
[personal profile] theemdash
Psst. Change "beta" in your subject header to "Answer".

18/12/07 15:06 (UTC)
theemdash: (SG-1 Sam/Cam)
[personal profile] theemdash
It confused me, too, but I was like, Wait, [livejournal.com profile] lady_ganesh is smarter than that. ;)

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